Forum:Starting additional wikis

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Recently there has been interest by several parties in starting RS3/OS wikis for other languages and currently we have no policy on how to handle such inquiries. While the technical back-end requirements of starting up another are minimal, we need to ensure that it is of quality and well maintained. I think the right course of action would be having them start a meta thread, where they introduce themselves and answer a few set questions, and then the community can discuss and decide.

Some things I think we need to ensure:

  • A large enough initial group to reasonably create and maintain a small wiki
  • Sufficient lua/scribunto knowledge to be able to port necessary modules with minimal assistance
  • Sufficient js and css knowledge to maintain the gadgets and themes

Discussion[edit source]

Comment - See above Elessar2 (talk) 17:38, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Comment - I think it would be appropriate to discuss creating some equivalent of Wikidata (as was suggested on Discord) and work through the obstacles presented so that the current wikis and any potential future wikis can benefit from it. In the same line, I wonder if scary transclusion is something that is wanted for ease in maintaining shared templates which are not likely to diverge in each wiki. That would probably come with its own issues, though, and I don't think it's supported in our version of MediaWiki. I'm not familiar with the technical obstacles that come with each issue, so other people are more suited to judge if the cost is worth it. Habblet (talk|c) 18:16, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Wikidata or similar is actually something we discussed during the board meeting (look for it in the notes), and in the meta, we'll probably look into it more once the GCP migration is completed, we want to concentrate on that for now. - Elessar2 (talk) 18:53, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Comment - Technical ability in admins comes over time as the needs of the wiki diversifies beyond mere content. I disagree with making that a requirement up front. cqm talk 18:23, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Comment - While I agree with this sentiment, I think it's not the best for establishing a new Wiki. Without some of this technical knowledge, would there be an expectation of the contracted Weird Gloop folks to work on some of this or to be the main ones assisting? I could understand a more independent route being preferred due to the potential language barrier and general upkeep needed.
I'd be curious on how the PT-BR version went and what the launch looked like for that. Legaia2Pla · ʟ · 22:07, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
Wikis are not built in a day. RSW is 15 years old. OSRSW builds on the same foundation and learned many lessons from RSW. And let's be honest, OSRSW spent some time being the lesser of the two wikis technically until the technical admins started appearing and rebalanced the playing field. Strong content is the foundation of a wiki, but we've had so much time to refine upon that and a virtually unparalleled team of dedicated editors given our size that we forget that. We have had the benefit of building on strong content for so long we can focus on minutiae in the style guide, grand technical projects and develop other resources that smaller wikis barely dream about. Don't hold new wikis to our current standards immediately - let them develop and see what innovations they generate along the way. cqm talk 11:47, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Comment - I see the opening of new wiki branches in different languages, for people who play RS3/OSRS from various zones of the world, a must to help the game to diversify it's community. Although the game (i will refer to OSRS) is only in english, playing it, and learn the mechanics isn't really hard to accomplish (i did it with 10-12 years old and almost any knowledge in that language, in 2005). On the other hand, a player who only knows how to play and doesn't know anything about lore behind quests, doesn't have any place to make friends who can communicate with him/her, and is a "forced ironman" in the adventure world of Gielinor, isn't a really full player. Of course, wiki aren't social media like discord, twitter or reddit, but i think if people realize about the existense of non english communities in the wikis, they will be encouraged to join and enjoy a lot more with the game. Finally, im here because i support the creation of a spanish speaking wiki, and i have a little team who will work with me if this proyect is supported enough. Some of they (including me) have a bit of knowledge in programming and there are 4 people who play the game years ago. Raguixxx 22:07, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Comment -

The main thing
The opening of this Wiki is to be used as a means of interval so that people who currently play runescape have some knowledge about the game, also to encourage new players to be encouraged to enter this world, which will become interesting for them. everything you can learn, We will also look for the way to interact with our Followers through the English language, This will not be easy but with the effort and dedication of our team we can make Several People come to Love This Wonderful Game
The Secondary
In addition to inviting new players to this game we will give you Guides to make it less complicated when entering the world of Runescape, these Guides will go from Level Elevation, Efficient Methods, Mission, Etc. Our team will always be ready for this Wiki to attract more public through this —The preceding unsigned comment was added by NemesisUwU (talk) on 01:10, 28 July, 2020 (UTC).
Copied from the talk page by Elessar2 (talk) 07:58, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Comment - I speak French and Spanish quite well (English natively) and am particularly interested in working on a German wiki. Doesn't matter which game, though I primarily play rs3. I know players who play both and am quite triggerhappy asking questions when I need to. So as long as you've got the team for it, I can help you with any of those three languages, for either game. I am also passionate about making this game as accessible as possible for people from all countries. I comment here not to say I would halfheartedly help—I would probably drive the project. (I also know very, very basic CSS/JavaScript, and am currently in a course as I try to get better)O TERAGARD 02:04, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Comment - I am also commenting on behalf of Raguixxx, a native Argentinian, who has a small team of 6 (including me) who are committed to working on the osrs Spanish project. O TERAGARD 02:10, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Comment - Me and the rest of the PT-br team are very supportive of additional languages, especially if a wikidata-like system is implemented (though in my opinion, only after such a system is added). I agree completely with Cqm's point, as the PT-br wiki took quite a long time developing its textual content before reaching the point where it was absolutely necessary to go after the technical innovations that were originally created for the English wikis. Besides, once the first international wiki deploys these features, multiple interlang wikis can help each other to do the same with less and less guidance from Gloop members, if these members are occupied with other projects. Crowborn (Talk) 19:41, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Question - What obstacles have you run into while working on the PT-br wiki, both in terms of textual content and technical improvements? Has there been difficulty bringing techincal changes from the English-language wikis over to the PT-br wiki? At some of the board meetings I've been a part of, we've had requests from the PT-br wiki representative for help on some stuff like converting modules and fixing up GE stuff, with middling success in addressing those. Do you think it is possible for the PT-br wiki (and other future alternate-language wikis) to get support through existing channels (like the Discord or the quarterly board meetings) or do we need to figure out a better way for you to ask for help? BigDiesel2m (talk) 18:55, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Comment - If we create a wiki in spanish it will facilitate communication among the spanish-speaking participants since they form a great part of both RS3 and OSRS players. The creation of the wiki in osrs will steadily increase the number of players of this game, which has been groundbreaking in the entire world, and give a much needed linguistic aid to many of the players who love and appreciate this game. With every day as we diversify and increase the utility of this great tool, the wiki, it will aid enormously in the ability of spanish speakers to learn since the game doesn't have a spanish dev version, and our idea is to create this tool in Spanish to facilitate the game all the more.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Guasaylatino (talk) on 21:55, 30 July 2020 (UTC).

Comment I think it's an excelent, and revolutionary proyect, to start a wiki in spanish, where all people who doesn't understand english will be helped. Many people who play the game in various countries will benefit from it. I support it atte: 77tigercows  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alijesus4455 (talk) on 03:37, 31 July 2020 (UTC).

Comment - I think it's a great idea to have more wikis, except that good sources of information and very well planned organization structure are needed to facilitate this process, mainly to define the order of page creation and other such details, because it's useless to create a small series of disconnected pages, such as random Herbology or Smithing pages. There will be huge gaps of content. It was only a few months ago that I joined the PT-BR community, and so for I came across this topic a lot, because more often than not, I want to import an RSW module and I end up facing trouble because that Wiki is already consolidated on a very strong basis. Even more so when you come across property-based modules, making it hard (or sometimes impossible) to just copy stuff one to one. Therefore, I recommend that a base system for creating new wikis should be developed, alongside an initial strategic planning. Especially in relation to some bots that could work for more than one wiki (for uploading images and updating prices, for example). In addition to the fact that there is no longer an official Spanish translation team, some rules on how to translate certain objects and texts should be predefined. Toktom 16:02, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Comment - I support additional languages as long as the game exists in that particular language. I would even contribute to a certain extend in building up a German wiki for RS3. I don't really play RS3, but still i could translate pages if necessary. I also think it would be a good idea to reach out to Schnupptrupp (if they're still active) and ask if they're interested in moving to our site. When it comes to old school, I am not sure it's a good idea to have multiple languages, mostly because the game only exists in english and it would be quite a challenge to translate examines etc. Brok 17:19, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Comment - While I don't think we should introduce hard requirements for new wiki creation, I do think we should implement a policy along the lines of the people interested in starting the wiki making a thread on meta answering some standard questions around the factors Elessar mentions. Ultimately the wiki community should decide on a case by case basis whether a new wiki should be supported, bearing in mind that support for a new wiki may take away from other projects. IsobelJ (talk) 20:04, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Comment - Something I brought up in Discord, but one of the biggest hurdles I see is for languages that the game is not translated into. How would you go about handling item names and examines, transcription of dialogue, and whatever else escapes me currently? I feel like it's a safe assumption that most people who natively speak a non-supported language play on the English servers, but there'a always going to be someone who doesn't. Is it worth leaving the actual in-game text in English (or, if for some reason you make Spanish derivations of the PT-BR pages, then the Portuguese text)? Badassiel 20:14, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

I agree that that poses a major hurdle for those languages, but I think that needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis. That's actually a great question to add for those languages though, since it's really something that needs to be decided right at the outset. I think regardless the base language probably needs to be English, since that's the language the game is developed in.
It was asked in meta by cook, but I'll ask it here again, does anyone have examples of localized wikis for games not translated to that language? Elessar2 (talk) 06:41, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Comment - I'm coming on behalf of Raguixxx and his team with the interest of contributing to a spanish translated OSRS wiki. Ignacio 18:57, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Comment - Hello! I'm Darma. An Admin from the Official OSRS Hispanic Community Discord Server. Reading about this idea of contributing to an OSRS Wiki on Spanish sounds fantastic. I would love to see this happening. Darma 20:38, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Comment - Regarding the naming of game entities: for languages that the game wasn't translated into (or used to be translated into):

  1. One solution that was brought up is for those wikis to have the page name in English (that is, in the URL), but have the first heading (the page title) contain both the fan translation and the original name in English. The reason for this is that, while a player could translate a fair amount of game entities and then look them up in the wiki, their translation could not match the fan translation (with some names not having literal translations or being able to be translated into multiple names), not to mention this may end up being tiring for the reader. The official name of the game entity (in the respective languages for the translated game versions; in English for the untranslated languages) is the quickest reference that a player has to look it up on the wiki.
    An inconvenience with this approach is having to constantly use the English name in links like [[English name|Translated name]], which would be pretty tiring, unless it was automated. It would be possible to make a template used like {{Tr|English name}} which looks for a property in the linked page containing the translated title, and displaying that instead, while keeping the page name in the URL in English. But this also has its own inconveniences.
  2. A more pragmatic solution is to have page names translated into the target language, and use English redirects instead.

Regarding partially translated game versions (only Latin American Spanish at the moment), it may be worth keeping a record of officially translated game entities (in one common place and/or in each relevant page), for historical purposes and to avoid translation disputes (unless it is decided that a fan translation is superior the original translation in specific cases). Habblet (talk|c) 12:54, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Comment - If wikis in non-supported languages are created, at some point (when they are somewhat developed) we should consider asking Jagex to create a wiki command for those languages (eg: ::eswiki Varrock / /eswiki Varrock) Habblet (talk|c) 17:33, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Question for User:Riblet15 - Recently, we were both part of an effort to improve the RSC Wiki, for which you ported over a number of modules originally developed for the OSRS Wiki. This included the infobox and navbox modules, which now appear on nearly every page on the wiki. Assuming we'd want the general style and layout of alternate-language wikis to match the corresponding English-language wiki, do you think someone with little technical/lua knowledge could port modules over to a new wiki in the same way? If not, what can we do to make it easier or more approachable for new wikis to take advantage of existing wiki tech? BigDiesel2m (talk) 18:55, 13 August 2020 (UTC)